Updates from November, 2011 Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Redbaiter 14:35 on November 28, 2011 Permalink  

    Key and Joyce Not Really So Clever 

    The hoo hah continues over John Key’s “brilliant” Steven Joyce engineered election victory.

    Left out of the equation is the dismal defeat of the proposition to review the MMP voting system. Failure to change this system will have dire consequences for future governments, the Nationals in particular.

    Key and the Nats should have campaigned more visibly and enthusiastically for change. That they did not must have been a strategy decision by the Nats’ tactical team. Primarily I would guess Steven Joyce and John Key.

    They obviously thought that pushing any viewpoint on MMP would distract from the election campaign.

    IMHO, a stupid and short sighted decision. MMP is a senseless and destructive voting system and will bog NZ’s governments down in unworkable coalitions for decades. It should have been replaced and almost any of the proffered systems would have been better, even FPP.

    In fact National will be hard pressed to find any coalition partner at the next election.

    Joyce and Key’s poorly chosen strategy has locked NZ into decades of political uncertainty and will hamper the survival of the National government. Key might have changed that if he had had the nerve to push the issue during the campaign.

    Not clever. Just real dumb I reckon.

    (Note: This appraisal based on current voting. I don’t expect any big changes in the final tally.)

    • Redbaiter 08:39 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Who else out there thinks having 13 (or more) communists sitting in the beehive pretending to be concerned about our environment is a good idea?

    • Angus 08:55 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Not me. I read the CV’s of those new MP’s you put up the other day. . . what a conga line of freaks. Those fruitcakes together with Labour in power would finally collapse the place. It astounds me as to how these people are evenly remotely qualified to be in Parliament, they have done nothing outside of a bullshit marxism-on-campus education, political activism and sitting around on committees waiting to be handed a cushy public sector job.

    • Redbaiter 09:04 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Yep, only people completely lacking any grasp on commercial reality (or any reality) could elect these useless pricks, (see the minimal votes they garnered when they did stand in electorates) and Key and the National should have done far more to advocate for a more selective voting system.

      This was our once chance, and we didn’t take it, and we’re stuck with this crap now for who knows how long.

    • kowtow 09:57 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      One of the new Watermelons was on the TV last night and blatterring on about how nice if the deaf one gets in on the specials.And how wonderful the diversity etc will be. Key also talks of this “benefit” we get from MMP,ie diversity.
      I don’t give a shit about diversity.Parliament is about political represention. But these people have turned it into their circus,where they display their “values”genders ethnicity,colours etc and now disabilities (if you’re allowed to say that any more)
      The media have given the Greens another easy ride as commentators have noted the deliberate playing down of them of their radical agenda in order to court more votes ,but they also note that agenda is still very much alive.I would call that deceit, but of course the media won’t call it as it is,unless you’re white, from the right and want one law for all, in which case a crusade to make you unelectable will be un leashed .

      Talking of diversity. Here’s an interesting court case from Queenstown where some poor girl has had a thrashing from her immigrant Dad for being a normal young New Zealander. The judges’ comments are if you come here you learn and share our values (whatever they are) He mustn’t have got the memo to say we are now multicultural. I thought we were meant to celebrate the diversity that immigration gives us!


    • erikter 12:39 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Not me either!

    • derp de derp 13:07 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Left out of the equation is the dismal defeat of the proposition to review the MMP voting system.

      The “review” of MMP (by the Electoral Commission, I think) will go ahead (assuming “keep MMP” wins after all votes are counted, which, as you say, it probably will).

    • LabourDoesntWork 18:53 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      The irony of leftwingers (collectivists) in advocating for diversity is in how they perpetually divide society under different labels and treat each group as entirely homogenous: as either perpetrators or victims, typically. The usual divide-and-conquer strategy of the left, of course….

      Amazing that it’s so successful, but I suppose there’s certain appeal in being a victim…:

      Moral superiority over your “oppressor”:
      –Moral vacuity leaves empty so many of those attracted to the appeals of the left. Though life is often just plain unfair, they invent perpetrated evils and demonise the perpetrators wherever there is mere inequality.

      Excuse for mediocrity:
      –“Mediocre teachers should be paid the same as the others! Excellence in others is unfair!” Equality of mediocrity, not promotion of excellence, is seen as desirable. (See: Socialism)

      Identity & Purpose:
      –The left can’t move on even when it’s time to move on. Wish they’d get over themselves already, but Blacks, like Sharpton and women, like Steinem are still whining and blaming all the wrong things. You’d think they’d learn, but that would require rethinking Everything… including why 2+2 = 5. Steinem, et al, are doing their best to find something to complain about – and it’s all about them: it’s got nothing to do with treatment of women in Islam or sex selection abortion, for example. See: “moral vacuity”, above

      Please, go on.

    • side show bob 21:34 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Totally agree LDW. Cheer up Red three years is a long time and world looks increasingly unstable. A country that struggles to maintain the basic needs of the people will probably not tolerate a political system that resembles pigs at the trough. We may be looking at a totally different beast come 2014.

    • Redbaiter 22:42 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “We may be looking at a totally different beast come 2014.”

      Hope so Bob. We sure as hell need to be.

    • LabourDoesntWork 23:07 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks ssb.

      I also meant to say (further to the ‘irony’ point): Conservatives advocate for the individual: the smallest minority of all! And also the most diverse collection of minorities you can subdivide society as…

    • mort 02:51 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      So Keyster is rewarding failed Liarbore politicians again… what is with this guy? He rewards the thieving socialist gits every time one of them just thinks about leaving Molesworth St. We should be able to rejoice the bastards are finally off the state tit, but no, he has another fucking gravy train for them to suckle from, if the ex-Parliamentarians’ Superannuation and perks regime weren’t enough.

    • mort 02:52 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

    • KG 03:01 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “”There’s absolutely no question that Phil Goff has represented New Zealand very well on the world stage in his role as both defence minister and trade minister so I wouldn’t rule that out.”
      This is the same Goff who was pictured holding hands with the terrorist Arafat?

    • mort 10:45 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Homosexual paedophile terrorist who got his comeuppance finally with AIDS

  • Redbaiter 11:35 on November 28, 2011 Permalink  

    A Libertarian Cheers For A Christian Society 

    Further to recent discussions about the Conservative Party, its timely to consider a piece by the well known Libertarian (American) writer Charley Reece.

    Charley recalls that some of the civilised communities he has lived in have been Christian communities, whereas the most barbaric places he has lived have been dominated by secular progressives.

    I agree with Charley, for in NZ, and in my travels around the globe, where I have actually lived (not holidayed) in other cultures and countries, I have noticed exactly the same features.

    Says Charley-

    The basic thing that protects our persons, our property and our liberty is the morality that individuals possess in their own hearts. The law cannot be a substitute for that. No law can protect you from a dishonest merchant or a thug because the law is always, of necessity, applied after the fact, and then only on a selective basis. Furthermore, as we have seen, the law and the system of justice often degenerate into a tragic farce.

    The bottom line is that if we become an immoral people, we will eventually lose both our prosperity and our liberty. A free society cannot exist without trust, and it is morality that cements that trust. We are drifting toward the abyss, and we had all better think seriously about why this is happening.

    Full article here.

    Colin Craig has said his party is not Christian. The smearers are saying otherwise. Even if it were so, and the Conservative Party was in fact Christian based, would that really be so bad?

    • Lucia Maria 12:39 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      The smearers are making the fundamental error of equating political involvement by Christians with a “Christian political party”, what ever that is supposed to be. Most of the parties in NZ have Christian political involvement – Goff even said that Labour policies were Christianity in action, but there was hardly any jumping up and down about that.

      What Christians are dealing with in NZ and other countries is a Marxist push to segregate religious belief into the private sphere. This translates into the idea that you can believe what you like, but you can’t act or talk about it. So any hint of real Christian thought or action bursting free from that pressure to stay silent causes a massive backlash. And there’s embarrassment from those Christians who have bought into the idea that they should not be seen or heard.

      That’s what we’ve been seeing with the Conservative Party.

    • pmofnz 12:44 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      A party with its own declared god-bothering brand is not the way to go. Far better to be united in “sameness of religion, manners, habits and political principles that united our ancestors”. “Substituting “diversity” will disunite us. There is no virtue in diversity per se. Experience teaches that the most stable societies are the most homogeneous.”

      We’ve seen where the various factions of diversity are taking society and the result is not good.

      We do not have to be clones, but general principles of respect for each other and respective properties is a good starting point without requiring the tag ‘Christian’. Somewhere down the track, that mutual respect may be under a different flag, dare I say it non-Christian, like Islam. However abhorrent it may be currently to some, even that has some basic principles for cohesive society.

    • KG 13:01 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “..even that has some basic principles for cohesive society.”
      Well, yeah–slavery under the banner of Islam is pretty “cohesive” all right. Due to the cost of rejecting it.

    • Kris K 14:36 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      What really sticks in my craw, Red, is that while most conservatives are more than happy to admit they embrace Judeo-Christian morals and principles, and that they are essential for a healthy society, as soon as someone actually identifies themself as a Bible-believing Christian, or states that the Bible and Christianity are the foundation to J-C principles, many of these same so called conservatives show their true colours and drag out much the same phraseology as the Progressive Left use to attack conservatism.

      For example – “fundamentalist Christianity”, “believers in sky-faeries”, “Christianity is just a crutch for the feeble-minded”, “God botherers”, etc. And if a Christian were to actually quote scripture to support their morality/principles, or use the Bible to emphasise that there are absolutes like truth and error, good and evil, then heaven help such an individual as he obviously has no credibility [sarc].

      And while I don’t necessarily feel that we need a Christian Party per se [I do feel it important that a conservative party have a Christian presence, though], I agree with your final sentence:

      “Even if it were so, and the Conservative Party was in fact Christian based, would that really be so bad?”

      As a Christian I feel that we are not only in a battle between ideologies, but in fact are engaged in a spiritual battle where it is not only the democratic, moral and family-centric society at stake, but quite literally the souls of men are the real prize. When we see the evil of the progressive left manifesting and twisting the ability of the average person to recognise the difference between right and wrong, good and evil is there any doubt that the REAL battle is so much larger than many of us will dare to admit?

      And does not the following aptly describe our enemy – the atheistic Marxist Left:

      Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
      Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    • Redbaiter 15:03 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      That is all well said Kris, but in my mind the key to defeating the left is to stop fighting among ourselves.

      Hatred and intolerance of Christianity is a Marxist trait and the left have used it well to divide our forces and allow themselves to dominate.

      We must overcome the left, and it is in that direction that our shots must be fired.

      We cannot waste ammunition (and create casualties) by firing into our own ranks.

      That we have done this is one reason the left have defeated us for so long.

      We must be unified. (not though at any cost)

    • pmofnz 15:09 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      KG – did you read the article? The quoted author said that he felt very safe in a local neighbourhood because even in Islamic states there must be some basic level of morality to give a generally cohesive society. Unfortunately a society whose outward oft-stated attitudes are utterly anti Judeo-Christian and totally abhorrent to most.

      KK – Having being raised with religion but not practicing as an adult, I hopefully might fall into your “average person [able] to recognise the difference between right and wrong”. I also note that you are a firm believer, maybe requiring a party with a definite secular Christian attachment. I however do not require that, just a conservative one willing to uphold stated principles and ideals that support families firmly based on Christian ways. For me the CP without secular attachment seems to tick many required boxes and I suspect would appeal to many.

    • KG 16:05 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “..even in Islamic states there must be some basic level of morality to give a generally cohesive society.”
      Basic level of morality? What, like stoning women to death, clitorectomies, murdering women who have been raped and “honour” killings?
      That’s some basic level of morality. Forgive me if I don’t share that definition.

    • Redbaiter 19:42 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I have lived in a few small towns in the US (Texas especially) where people still went to church on Sunday. I lived in Rexburgh (Idaho) for a while, which is a real Mormon town. Same thing.

      No theft, no violence, no thuggery. You could leave the windows of your car down and the keys in the ignition. You could walk the streets at any hour of the night without fear of being assaulted or robbed.

      Same as in some towns I lived in in Oman and UAE and Saudi Arabia. They were Muslim towns, but same thing. No theft. No muggings. If you drop your wallet, someone will turn it in to the police every time.

      Compare this to places where secular progressives rule. Like New York, San Fran, LA, Auckland. I’ve lived in all those places. No damn chance mate you’ll ever get a dropped wallet back. Violence burglary, muggings car theft.

      Once, after a flight was unexpectedly cancelled, I was stuck in a hotel in a certain part of New York. The manager told me quite clearly not to go walking around the streets after dark.

      The difference is stark, and I think that it is this level of morality that is the focus of Charley’s piece.

    • Kris K 11:10 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Well said, Sinner.
      You’re dead right when you say:

      “Ask any real Christian, they will explain there are “liberal” Christians – who aren’t really Christians at all – and “True” Christians who actually believe in what the bible says.”

      In my opinion one cannot be both a Christian and a liberal – the two are mutually exclusive.

    • Lucia Maria 14:26 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply


      So that’s where Goff got that from.

      I’ve written a number of posts on this subject over the years. The two latest on Phil Goff and Clare Curren.

    • Lucia Maria 14:29 on November 29, 2011 Permalink | Reply


      My previous comment is in moderation (too many links, I think), but since I’ve replied to you, I have to add this.

      You said: “liberals are liberals: the only effective solution involves piano wire and lamp-posts.”

      I will never agree with that. Any one that advocates that has stepped over the abyss.

    • Redbaiter 08:25 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Kris, be careful what you say in response to the commenter using the posting name “Sinner”.

      He is a leftist posting here for the purpose of discrediting this blog.

      Lucia is right and repeats what I have often stated in respect of Sinner’s comments.

      I leave his posts up as an example of the duplicity the left are capable of.

      Personally I think he’s Pete George, but I could be quite wrong.

    • Redbaiter 08:49 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      For an example of how the left are using Sinner and his comments to try and discredit TrueblueNZ see here-


      at comment number 47.

      You see the plan?

    • pinkofreezone 09:20 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Firstly no socialist can honestly call their ideology Christian, it goes against the following old testament commandments:

      EIGHT: ‘You shall not steal.’

      TEN: ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.’

      Michale Savage was a principled man but sadly confused, the dole is apllied force, Charity is applied Christianity:

      2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

      We can see that Jesus had no moral objections to contracts or private ownership of property from The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard:

      Matt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

      Secondly the ideas of Christianity support the ideals of freedom and personal responsibility as evidenced by the fact that God gave each of us the self goverance to either choose God or reject God. The American Founding Fathers recognised this, “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

      God doesn’t afford us the right to judge others but he instructs us to warn others of risky behaviour, and this is a right – freedom of speech. The simple fact of the matter is that Conservatives warn of risky behaviour and those engaging in it don’t particularly like it. Tough bikkies.

    • Kris K 21:02 on November 30, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “Kris, be careful what you say in response to the commenter using the posting name “Sinner”.”

      You’re quite right, Red. I should have made it clear that while I agreed with the portion I quoted from Sinner’s comment, I certainly didn’t agree with his closing sentence from the same comment. No surprises that the duplicitous Pete George [United Future candidate, Dunedin] grabbed it, though, and quoted it [at Dimpost] ignoring my quoted portion with qualifier, and highlighted Sinner’s final sentence.

      But I did leave myself a bit open – agreed.

  • Redbaiter 08:50 on November 28, 2011 Permalink  

    The Progressive’s Hate Campaign Against The Conservative Party 

    Historically, I’m a National Party supporter. But I can’t support that party today, when it has betrayed so completely the principles it was founded upon.

    The NZ National Party has emulated the Liberal Party of Canada. Or the Conservative Party of the UK. Or the Republican Party of the US. All have become shadows of the parties they once were as they have one by one fallen victim to the cultural Marxism that has swept the West.

    As our cultures have been radically altered, so has this change filtered into our political parties, pushed by a liberal/ progressive political class that can now be seen to have slowly and steadily undermined everything those parties once stood for.

    In NZ, the National Party is not the only organisation destroyed. ACT has been destroyed. The Libertarians have been destroyed. Even the Labour Party has been adversely affected.

    In Canada, the Conservative Party grew due to popular demand for an antidote to the poison that was destroying Canada’s traditional culture. Electing Stephen Harper as its leader in 2004, it snatched power from the Liberal Party (Canada’s National Party) just two years later. Harper has been Canadian PM since 2006.

    NZ’s “liberals” are wary. Maybe they feel the contempt rising in the populace. Whatever, something has spurred immense resistance to Colin Craig’s Conservatives among the progressive political class.

    The left controlled mainstream media has mostly ignored them or smeared them. However this disdain is nothing compared to the campaign of hate being carried out by the so called “liberals” of the established minor parties and National.

    Colin Craig doesn’t go to church, but topping the smears is the lie that the Conservative Party is dominated by “Fundamentalist Christians”. That Craig is a “Pakeha Brian Tamaki“. Here are Colin Craig’s own words on a Q & A session with the Omaru Mail about a month ago.

    Question from George- “do you base your policies on good Christian principles?”

    Colin Craig- “Hi George. Not a Christian party. Common sense is my main thing and the basis of our policies. Practical results more important than ideology.”

    That won’t stop the Progressives. They’ll continue their hate campaign of smears and lies as they feel the political ground slipping away under their feet. My advice is confront them if you have the time, but in the main leave them to the squalor of their putrid condition.

    They’ll go the same way as the Liberal Party did in Canada and become relics of history. The Conservative fight back has started. The battle won’t be won today, but in the future.

    When I observe these cowardly attacks I am reminded of Charley Reece’s words from a piece written at a time that seems so long ago, when I first started advocating Conservative Politics on usenet in the late nineties, and was forced to deal with an unbelievable level of hate and scorn and intolerance.

    With 55,000 votes for NZ’s own Conservative Party over the weekend, how things have changed since then. Charley’s words-

    “The pseudo-liberal closely resembles the professional communist. He preaches tolerance while practicing intolerance; he condemns bigotry while being a bigot; he purports to be for open debate while silencing all of his opponents; he says he is for religious tolerance while routinely slandering Christians; he purports to be for multiculturalism while viciously attacking our traditional European culture.

    These pseudo-liberals should be recognized for what they are: authoritarians, wearing a disguise, who are the mortal enemies of a free society.”

    • St Hubbins 09:50 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Great post – agree 100% with you on this RB. This was a great result for the Conservative Party considering they didn’t exist a few months ago.

    • Jay 09:50 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Wish I could say I was surprised all the National Party cheerleaders are trying so hard to smear the Conservative Party with lies.

      Good quote from Charley Reece btw.

    • Redbaiter 10:06 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks Jay-

      The fake liberals are at it again today, with the normally verbose Kiwiblog diehard Kiwi In America saying-

      “Social conservative/Christian parties have never managed 5% even when Capill was not known as a pedaphile.”

      Can’t help themselves. They have to lie and smear.

    • john 11:00 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Touche’ Red.
      I think many were put off by the ‘wasting your vote’ brigade.
      Huge possibilities here and I feel there could be big support from the provinces.It will not be a pushover for the Nats in the next three years and the CP could benefit from any disillusionment.

    • The Gantt Guy 11:06 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      I see Slater is still at it. I wonder what he and his progressive liberal playmates are so afraid of?

    • KG 12:07 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      “I wonder what he and his progressive liberal playmates are so afraid of?”
      The costs of liberty and personal responsibility.

    • pinkofreezone 12:28 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Good stuff, something to stick your teeth into, I might even join my local electorate to see if I can have an influence in getting them to drop the opposition to asset sales nonsense and push the repeal of the ETS and one law for all with a venegence.

    • Redbaiter 12:46 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply


      Yes, there are many things we may not agree with but for now maybe its best just to concentrate on getting to the ball after the kick off.

    • erikter 14:00 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      A very good post!

    • The Gantt Guy 14:23 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Hedz-up folks. Colin Craig is being interviewed by that commie prick Campbell tonight. Might be a good watch, but more likely a beat-pup.

    • Redbaiter 14:57 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      Y’know that is what I find hard to agree with.

      Why the hell deign to appear on a communist show run by a fake journalist?

      The headline would read well if it said

      “Colin Craig refuses to appear on the show because he regards John Campbell as an extreme left partisan and a disgrace to the craft of journalism.”

      Then again, maybe he can handle Campbell. Craig seems fairly adept at dealing with these left wing sham journalists.

    • Angus 15:34 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      That Lindsay Mitchell is another fucken idiot too, I reckon. All of that bullshit that they think is so “freedom-loving” is always destructive in every regard. Either personally destructive (drug use), destructive of well established & functional societal mores (gay adoption) or the literal destruction of others (abortion & euthanasia)

    • Redbaiter 15:42 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      They’re mainly just cultural Marxists.

    • dad4justice@gmail.com 19:20 on November 28, 2011 Permalink | Reply

      A true conservative gives Graeme Taylor the big bruv runs. Must ask Farrar when I can do battle with the low life scum liberal nutbar.

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