It’s Winston’s fault. No wait, it’s John Key’s fault. No, no no, Bill English is to blame. Wrong again, it was the media..!! No, it was MMP..! The recriminations have only just started, but of course the one place the voters of New Zealand will not point their finger is where it should be pointed, right at themselves. Or at least a sizeable proportion of them.
Labour occupies the government benches because Winston put them there and he was given this power by means of the Mixed Member Proportional voting system. National Leader Jim Bolger, one of a long list of ineffectual Nat leaders, held a referendum on the issue in 1992. For no good reason other than the left were agitating for it, which incidentally, is what motivated Jim Bolger in most of his decisions, and pressure from the left still shapes his opinions today. A hopelessly lost left wing puppet.
In a complicated two-part poll, voters were asked whether they wanted to change the existing voting system and then to indicate support for one of four reform options: mixed member proportional representation (MMP), the single transferable vote (STV), supplementary member (SM) or preferential vote (PV). If there was majority support for change, the government promised to hold a binding referendum (with a choice between the first past the post (FPP) system and the most popular reform option) the following year.
Only 55% took part in the referendum. They chose change, and the change they said they wanted was MMP. This change was ratified in a second referendum held simultaneously with the 1993 general election, where voters supported MMP over First Past the Post by 54% to 46%. This time, 85% voted.
The 1996 election was the first MMP election. It resulted in a National New Zealand First coalition. The period was one of party jumping and infighting and the govt eventually collapsed.
In 2011 the National Party responded to voter dissatisfaction with MMP and held a third referendum coincident with the election. The results showed 57.8 percent of valid votes were in favour of keeping the MMP system, with 42.2 percent in favour of change. Incredibly, 33% of votes were classed as invalid.
So it’s pretty much a closed case. NZers brought MMP on themselves in the first place, and failed to reject it in 2011 when given the chance. Most notable about that lost opportunity was the National Party’s reluctance to take any kind of firm position.
So what about now? Now, we’re done. As a country, its over. The stupid reign in NZ, and its not as if it’s an unexpected event. We’ve turned a blind eye to so much.
Such as an education system that produces ignorant of history socialist robots, (see video below) who now control our bureaucracy, our corporations, and in the end our government, local and central.
We’ve turned a blind eye as investment levels (outside of real estate) have gradually tapered off. (see chart) No country can grow or be a success without investment. Investment in housing boosted by out of control immigration is not the real thing, and with Labour in govt, NZers might just learn that painful truth.
We’ve turned a blind eye to Cultural Marxism, or Critical Theory, that insidious disease that strengthens its grip on society every time a television set is switched on, a paper is read or a radio is listened to. Or when a deeply brainwashed kid graduates university or high school.
We’ve turned a blind eye as the Marxist left have infiltrated every one of our cultural institutions. Every so called comedian is a left wing propagandist. Every show on TV is presented by some vapid progressive collectivist. (Only in a country as far left as NZ could some of them be farcically classed as right wing)
New Zealand’s primary “right wing” blog is a disappointing ode to Progressivism. As this is being written, the lead article on Kiwiblog is a critique of the new govt for not having enough women in its Ministry. Commenters there call each other right wing bastards, and left wing bastards, but really, they’re almost all the same, and don’t have the political perspective to discern otherwise. We’ve turned a blind eye as the political spectrum has shrunk to the far left quarter of the available space.
The political confusion is so rabid in NZ that the newly elected govt, with a closet communist as PM, is bound by its electoral promises, and the promises of its electoral partners, to reduce immigration. While the National Party, perceived as right wing, wants to continue with massive levels of cultural invasion. Its upside down, arse about face, and both parties are completely clueless in terms of political direction.
In fact NZ politics is such a quagmire, I have personally given up on trying to understand it. NZ voters and politicians make Venezuela look good.
Notes re video. The show is The Bolt Report. The speaker is Bella d’Abrera, who is the Director, Foundations of Western Civilisation Program, at the Institute of Public Affairs, Sydney Australia. She is a professional historian with a BA in History and Spanish from Monash University, an MA in Spanish from the University of St Andrews and a PhD in History from the University of Cambridge. The triology she refers to is the work of the Marxist historian Eric Hobsbawm.
Back to MMP. Winston Peters enabled a party of communists, subversives and delusional empty headed children to become the NZ govt. This is the end of New Zealand First. Whether Winston went with Labour/Greens out of malice to National, or because of his earnest desire for immigration reform, it matters not. He’s finished and so is his party. A large percentage of NZF voters would have supported him hoping he would be a brake in a coalition with the Nats. Winston going with Labour/ Greens has betrayed those voters deeply and they won’t forget it.
But wait. The very first thing on Labour’s to do list will be lowering the MMP threshold to 3% or 4%. if they succeed in this, who is to say who is finished and who will prosper? More confusion. More unproductive flailing as we sink deeper into the quicksand.
Winston doesn’t much care, which might explain his strange reluctance in taking up the offer of Deputy PM. He’s old, he’s tired, possibly quite ill, and he’s done. He will be lacklustre in govt, and strangely, this may be a factor in allowing it to run its course, and not collapse soon as so many predict.
The Nats in opposition have the best chance ever to fix NZ, but they won’t take it. They’re too dumbed down, too infiltrated by the left to even see the opportunity. If they weren’t this way, if they were bright, alert and conscious of the opportunity, here’s what they would do-
Firstly they need to recognise they are directionless, and therefore firm up their ideology and go out and sell it. They should fire the strategists who told them to do anything as long as it kept the left out of power. This was a tactic that was always eventually going to fail disastrously and now it has. In terms of electoral action, they need to do a Donald Trump.
Secondly, they should send Progressives like David Farrar and his ilk (most of the Young Nationals too) to the back of the room. Or maybe just tell them to go join the Labour Party. Stop listening to their confused Marxist rot and turn away from social progressivism and all of the damage it does.
They should recommit to their original brilliant founding principles, and ask every member to pledge a commitment to those principles, and the actioning of those principles. Before any prospective or current member can be admitted or readmitted to the party, they must sign off on this pledge.
Then they need to go out and sell these principles to the NZ public. Bring some order and direction back to NZ’s political scene. Stop turning a blind eye to all of the factors that have brought us to where we are today.
Will the National Party do these things? Not a hope of course, and that’s why I called this post “Out of the quagmire into the quicksand”. NZ is failing, and that failure is about to accelerate. Apparently, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop it. We’ll thrash our arms and legs about and sink deeper and deeper until we’re submerged. And that’s such a damn tragedy and a shame. NZ was once my favourite country. If it keeps going the way it is going, in ten to twenty years it will be a dystopian wasteland.
TrueblueNZ 
40 responses to “Out of the quagmire into the quicksand”
Good post. I like the mature way you comment and moderate. I think Jacinda like all leaders want what is best for NZ. I simply think she is wrong. Referring to her as a communist or taxcinda is not unreasonable. However, referring to her as the tooth fairy or Winston as a drunken dwarf like many do on KB is just juvenile.
You made a good assessment of the votes on MMP especially the second vote. John Key was happy to state his view on the flag referenda. However, he thought he could use MMP to his advantage so he was happy for MMP to stay and get some credit for the referenda.
There are criteria for right and left. One is social and the other is economic. You are right on both. Please correct me if I am wrong. ACT on the other hand is right on economic and almost far left socially.
I think I am centrist economically and pretty right socially.
The next few day and weeks will be interesting. I believe a lot of people with conservative values helped get Winston in Parliament. Many would be supporters of Family First. If he support a referendum on legalizing cannabis for personal use but not pushing hard for his policy on a binding referenda on the Maori seats he will lose a lot of support.
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Thanks for the kind words Chuck. Can’t help feeling there’s more news to come on Winston’s decision. Maybe its his health, or maybe the Nats just would not give him anything at all.
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I thought you liked the idea of reduced lmmigration which this latest Govt has promised to implement, so what is your problem?
Could you explain to me what a “cultural marxist is as I’ve never met one, or is it just another hip buzz word you’ve heard Bolt or Rowan Dean use?::::::: Anyway, i hope we take notice of the sensible decision the Kiwis made by electing a Labor Govt, and elect Bill Shorten and Labor into power here in OZ!*!*
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Australia already have a left wing Labor government. We have the Turnbull version of the ALP. And in 2019 we will get the real ALP version in Bill Shorten and his team. I don’t think it could be much worse than the pseudo LNP version we currently have which acts like the ALP but pretends it is not.
BTW BS will only last as PM as long as his Deputy Tanya Plibersek allows him to. A repeat of the Rudd/Gillard situation is clearly in store for Australia, which is why we should not let women get anywhere near the reins of power. They are too ambitious!
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Could you explain to me what a “cultural marxist is as I’ve never met one
Our understanding of our history was being revised and as our historian Michael belgrave notes: Ranginui helped develop “a grand indigenous narrative that not only told a very different story of cultural survival of Maori but indicated what was required to restore justice as he and others saw it.
Of course this task was not left to ranginui alone Ka Whawhai Tonu Matou was preceded by a number of Pakeha historians and others who helped construct a very different history of colonialism. Honourable mention ought to be made of Dick Scott, Claudi Orange, Jock Philips, James Belich and Anne Salmond. But Ka Whawhai Tonu Matou which was published in 1990 was the most important and influential colonial history by a Maori author. What is interesting is that his criticisms were couched in a language which was familiar to the middle classes who provided the management and leadership to our core institutions. His was an original and powerful voice in critiquing the state (although of course not te only voice). It was a voice that took the arguments of an international politics of liberation : the Marxism of Gramsci the notion of hegemony the critiques of colonialism offered by Fanon and Césaire the liberation theory and the possibility of a transformative education of Freire and Illich and put them into a New Zealand vernacular. Here was a set of intellectual ideas applied to the particular circumstances of this country
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For much of the twentieth century it was assumed that the state operated on behalf of a single nation that the two (the nation and the state were indivisible) The state represented all New Zealanders. It deserved their undivided loyalty and in return the state was neutral with respect of the ethnic identity of it’s citizens. The identity politics of Maori challenged all of these elements. The nation was made up, it was argued, of two groups and the operation of the state ought to recognise the particular circumstances and the rights of Maori. Something which it had not done previously. In fact the state had seemed to operate in ways that had directly disadvantaged Maori. The state was hardly neutral. According to Ranginui and others the state preserved Pakeha interests even if it continued to claim universallity and neutrality. It was a radical rethinking of what the nation state of NZ ought to be. It required a de coupling of the nation now defined as Maori and Pakeha or Maori and the Crown and required the state to operate in new and different ways. A new understanding and a new social contract needed to be established . But of course there was no compulsion for the state to acknowlege these new expectations. It was left to the good sense and sensitivities of some key players: Maori, Pakeha and representatives of the state to explore what this means.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thetreatydebates/audio/2491827/treaty-debate-1-2010
and
Spoonley gets to represent this tolerant New Zealand at international conferences. In Canada this month he heard debates about immigration and housing in which you could have swapped Vancouver and Toronto for Auckland or Sydney. In Berlin last year he noticed again that New Zealand is “an outlier” when it comes to anxieties about identity and citizenship.
Why, they asked. Partly because we are a small country on the edge of the world without European security concerns. But also because we have been through the growing pains already.
“Our difficult moment was sometime in the 70s and 80s when we had to grow up as a nation, when we couldn’t assume we were all New Zealanders and only New Zealanders, in that old Robert Muldoon quote.”
We discussed and “partially resolved” issues of minority rights in those years of the Maori political renaissance. “It de-hyphenated the nation state. It said the state manages on behalf of all of us but who exactly is a member of the nation? What Maori did was say there are several nations present.”
Fundamental shifts unexamined, unmandated, informed by post-modernists, post colonialists and neo marxists.
The media do the convincing and they are amongst the least trusted in society.
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“The very first thing on Labour’s to do list will be lowering the MMP threshold to 3% or 4%.”
I have seen this claim made by someone on Kiwiblog. However, I would be surprised if they do so but anything is possible. The ruling party should not make changes to the voting system without a public referendum. They could legally do so but it would cost them at the next election.
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Good point Chuck. It probably should be a referendum, but who knows, and even if it is, with NZ in such a confused political state, there is every chance the majority will vote for the threshold to be lowered..
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[…] via Out of the quagmire into the quicksand — TrueblueNZ […]
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Chuck, I voted Winston, being under the impression that he would support National (having implied that pre-election with ‘I will talk to the highest polling party first’ and the fact he pretended he loathed the Greens and campaigned heavily in the rural areas. I wanted less immigration and for him to restore the Nats more to the right, the smacking referendum and Maori seats referendum. I am most outraged that he has chosen the side who polled lowest, installing the communist greens into power. ‘you can’t always get what you want’ height of arrogance in his lacklustre and bizarre speech. Most of all he has betrayed the the the NZ electorate by going with the losers, (who are now pretending they won it by fair means). I will never be fooled again. NZ First are history, possibly the five per cent Greens too. Imagine how all his conservative elderly supporters feel today, as well as the many farmers and rural supporters. Ex supporters now, I bet. yep, we have been shifted hard left, and worst of all, there was no tue mandate. As the economy tanks, the three parties who denied the moral authority of National to govern, will be punished heavily. Just my prediction!
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Voters in NZ and Australia should take note of Chile’s history. How a closet Marxist called Salvador (ironically the meaning of his name is saviour) Allende managed to win government legally in 1970. He wreaked social and economic havoc on Chile for three years, before the armed forces deposed him and shot him dead at his desk in government house when he refused to surrender. Chile then endured a long period of military dictatorship until 1990 under the infamous General Augusto Pinochet. The left wing utopia planned by Allende became a reactionary, brutal, corrupt, right wing undemocratic government. Those workers who Allende sought to favor with his Marxist policies became the biggest losers. Let’s hope this kind of situation never happens in Australia or New Zealand, but when Marxists try to ruthlessly impose their will on others against their will these sort of unintended consequences are not infrequent. Lest we forget Chile.
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I thought Allende was shot leaving a plane
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Redbaiter,
You’ve been consistent all along and one of the few voices that has for a long time been calling out National & Labour two cheeks of the same arse. Too many hace sat cowardly by while National have been in power content that as long as it was “their” team in power implementing radical change, all was OK.
I see today the Kiwiblog Commentariat has been slamming Arden for disavowing Capitalism. The problem is though Capitalism has never been tried in NZ.
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Thanks for that EAD. Its laughable the way that all one needs to be adjudged a right winger on Kiwiblog is to be a National supporter.
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Hi EAD, I know this is sort of off topic, but do you remember me as ‘meatloaf’ talking about the family court system. And that I would write a book exposing it. Well I’ve done that, any young person who reads it will avoid being ripped off by the system.
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EAD, I’ve looked at the research. From our founding as a nation till the great depression, a tax on imported goods was 66% of government revenue. There was a time when a small amount of tax paid for the essentials. All of this changed in the depression. If you look at a recent comment I made, at the end of the blog, I explain how with a gold standard, we can have real free trade instead we have managed trade.
In the German Preface of Keynes book he said, that his ideas would work better in a totalitarian society, and that gold was a barbaric relic, an obstacle. Keynes managed economics got implemented in the 1930’s, that’s what macroeconomics is all about. Finally EAD, remember as ‘meatloaf’ what I told you about family court, that I know their secrets and I plan on revealing it. I’ve done that by writing the book ‘Differential Dating-Volume 2’.
So I just thought I’d let you know.
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Top post Red. It will be the only non fiction piece from the election I read so it goes straight to the pool room.
The new batch of Nat progressive ho hopers are ready to go of course. Bridges and Kaye no doubt rank themselves at least as attractive as Ardern. So how hard can it be smiling and waving to get elected? Its not like you need to have a wealth of knowledge or experience on how to rebuild a nation.
What happened to intelligent politically informed voters electing experienced leaders based on a sound economic vision and common sense policy to support that vision? The vision has been replaced by fairy tales of global warming remedies and promises of free giveaways.
Farrar and his groupies couldn’t pick their noses when it comes to political judgement. He is a political pollster and the media ask him for opinion? Good grief. He and his fellow sycophants were so cock sure Clinton would win. Even Key wasted no time trashing Trump.
The voters that supported has been charlatan Peters allowed him the power to choose the government and direction of NZ as though it was irrelevant. Those voters have no clue whatsoever. He will deliver disaster no matter who he went with but Ardern was always the soft option with the worst potential outcome.
This script was written and the likely result decided in my mind many months ago.
There was no genuine right wing conservative party competing. Why? The Conservatives let the side down badly following Colin Craigs long drawn out destruction. Who believes the whole story has been revealed yet? Much more went on there.
In my opinion, the quiet cuplrits who let the country down this election, because they had the greatest potential leverage, are the Act party. Annointed by the prime minister and in government they had no competition on the right and they came up with one lousy seat? Pathetic or deliberate you decide.
Is Act party president Ruwan Premathilaka still party president after that woeful election outcome? If he is why has he not resigned? Its as if one seat for Act has become acceptable.
Hint Ruwan: Its pathetic and all board members should be up for reelection immediately.
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Thanks for the lucid comment KC. Yes, ACT are a dismal failure, but apparently there’s not much accountability there.
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Agree with your other commenters, Red. There should be a sign up at every international airport: Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.
Unless and until a comprehensive, well-funded, credible alternative rises on the Right, hope is futile. I gave my party vote to the Conservatives this time around, knowing it was wasted for 2017 but hopeful of providing them with some small incentive to rebuild for a more credible campaign in 2020. I’m hoping for a 1-seat strategy that will give them a toe-hold.
National have proven they are a lost cause.
KC, forget ACT. Stick a fork in ’em, they’re done. The article Seymour penned in The Spinoff (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/19-10-2017/david-seymour-what-i-learned-from-our-election-drubbing/) proves he’s a progressive liberal who just doesn’t get it. ACT are a circus, and have been since the reverse take-over by the Leftertarianz. If they have a future – which is highly doubtful at this point – they need to remember the only true words to ever come out of James Carville’s mouth: It’s the economy, stupid. Nobody wanted to hear Brash seek to court the stoner vote. Nobody wanted to read about Jamie Whyte defending incest, and nobody wants to know about Seymour turn them into a death cult, looking to murder all of society’s most vulnerable.
Morons, top to bottom, left to farther left. My sincere hope for the future – at least until this 3-ring circus collapses – is that Ardern will be the same radical ideological, deeply incompetent dilettante as Obama, whose legacy will be wiped away within 6 months of the grown-ups taking back over.
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Impressed by your choice to vote for the Conservatives Gantt. Heroic gesture. Shame about Craig and what he did to the party, and recovering from that disaster will be a monumental if not impossible task for those who represent the party today.
Thanks too for linking to that article by David Seymour. What a disappointing load of progressive tripe. With such a confused viewpoint, he’s never going to be an effective political player.
Had previously been prepared to give Seymour some latitude, (not much, but some) but clearly that was a mistake.
Those who move from the left to libertarianism always seem to have a skewed outlook, and always seem to cling to their leftist beginnings in one way or another.
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Red, It may be possible for the Conservative Party to make traction if Winston does not follow through on his promises like smacking. I am sure he got a lot of votes from Family First supporters.
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If there is a need for a true right party (and I sincerely believe there is) now is the time to get one off the ground if there is the remotest possibility that the 5% bar is lowered to 3 or 4%.
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Chuck, he will head off as foreign minister into an endless round of cocktail parties and engagements that mean diddly to anyone. He is not a well man and the word is that he is hitting it hard. It looks like it too.
Peters let the Hobsons Choice team down bigtime after his bromance with Brash. He took the baubles in 2002 as well when he could have blown the treaty thing wide open. He is good for a revamped Super Gold Card.
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Good article. just a couple of things to put right
Article referred to a binding referendum. There is not such thing
There is no such thing as a non binding referendum which is a poll
Referendum: When an issue is put to the popular vote, vote thus taken. in other words, the outcome/result is the final decision
I am not a Left Winger
In 1996 the majority of NZ First wanted a coalition with Labour. Peter’s screws up and goes with National
Last election many who voted for NZ First wanted a coalition with National. Peter’s screws up and goes with Labour
The problem with Peter’s is that he does not consult his own supporters. He only talks to himself and the Riff Raff around him
Peter’s it now appears has formed an agreement whereby the snake Shaw becomes Climate Change Minister
There is no AGW. What is Peter’s thinking? Refer to Habibullo Abdussamatov
The National Party are in all sorts of trouble the gangsters that they are. National have obviously sold out to China and I believe English is a treacherous globalist
Ardern does not have to – nor do I want her to – build one single house. What she does have to do is build a strong economy where people will build their OWN homes
No one should own some else’s home
We have to get fid of this landlord mentality. Investors should invest in the real economy. Do we have one.
NZ has to take back the steel and cement industries and go back to building our own trains and stimulate our own economy
The current NZ economy is false and built upon Key’s massive borrowing just to appease his bankster mates
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Red, I’ve read your article, and I think the big issue is people don’t even understand what right wing means anymore. For instance, when Adam Smith, David Ricardo, David Hume and John Stuart Mill all argued for free trade, free trade meant exports must equal imports, if the free market would be allowed to work.
If you import more than you export, you would have to give up your gold, you’d have less money as a nation. As you would have less money, you would import less luxuries, and trade would now be balanced.
Most political commentators just don’t seem to understand it. They don’t understand that what free trade originally meant is that your exports equalled your imports. We live in an era of a managed economy with a managed monetary system.
So as I was saying because National is going with what is now normal, your choice is now slightly left, or aggressively left. Seymour is a disappointment he shows no ability to bring this country back to what it was. Other than Euthanasia he hasn’t done much.
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Sorry Warren Free Trade was never meant to mean balanced trade
Free Trade means unlimited trade and for the benefit of the traders, financiers, banking,shipping, commissions, backhanders and so on. Controlled by the City of London
The snag to Free Trade is that countries lose independence which suits those promoting a New World Order
Britain (City of London) started WWI to knock Germany out as a trade competitor
WWII was to finish the job
Germany made better goods in newer factories and shock horror were to distribute across Europe by rail thereby cutting the COL out of shipping port to port
Germany was even exporting direct to USA
WWII bombed rail lines
NZ’s industrial base was deliberately gutted by Douglas and Richardson to suit the Free Traders
It is quite possible that neither had a clue what they were doing. Blindly following orders
If they did know then they should be done for acting against the interests of NZ. Treachery
Seymour who cops a bit of criticism comes across as not understanding any of this
Trade originally started with someone exporting a surplus or someone wanting a commodity that someone else had
Originally it was the barter system
NZ has to go back to doing as much as it can for itself. Rebuild an industrial base
Take back the steel and cement industries. They do not need to be foreign owned
Trading surpluses
Trading for what we can’t do
Patriotism is a good thing
In 1933 Germany had 6-7million unemployed. Three years later, full employment and not on arms
Britain in a similar situation, high unemployment. Did nothing. Gaoled Mosley
NZ used to have the 4th highest standard of living in the world before Douglas and Richardson wrecked everything
The circus in Wellington has to stop
We can do it again. Dump Democracy and go for Fascism
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Re MMP, what I really loathe is the way it gets treated like a sacred cow, by both the MSM and all the parties, especially the main two. It’s not PC to diss it, or to point out its failures, or its inherent dangers
(now very proven). I never voted for it!.
Yes, it was put up for referendum, but National were dead silent on their stance, which I thought was very puzzling. Surely they knew the dangers of it for them, re the WP factor, and the fact that the moral mandate does not have to be enforced. National will always have less likely coalition partners, as we live in far left land. It’s likely partners have always had volatile polling numbers and that the Maori Party was a complete mismatch.
National could have reformed it also, taking on Germany’s safer model. But no, nothing was done.
I just don’t get why. MMP is a leftist stooge in my view, designed for the left, by the left, of the left.
All we hear now is ‘that is MMP’. If the current outcome we have from this election, had been outlined to the public in the first place, it would never have passed muster. Now I know why Peter Shirtcliffe campaigned so hard and long against it. But why did National not try to get it kicked to touch when they had the chance?
Very loud re the dopey flag referendum, dead quiet on MMP. After this debacle, I will not bother voting again, unless MMP is reformed or dumped. FPP would have given National their historic fourth term victory; bet they rue the day they ever helped to enable MMP. Labour are now laughing all the way to the treasury benches, totally unmandated. Foul as. Where is their morality? (sarc..).
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I cannot see any point in not voting. Would you prefer a National led government or a Labour led one? Two and a half years is a long time. The Conservative Party could be a coalition partner of National.
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Sorry David J., I meant Brian J.
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Brian J, this is an exact quote from an economics text book by Richard T. Gill, pg. 366:
Of course, the classical economists were not so foolish as to offer such a naive arguement, for it is clear on the face of the matter that, unless the country is a gold producer (like Russia or South Africa), exports of gold cannot continue indefinitely….
———————-
What this means is that the classical economists understood that a country cannot continually import more than it exports, as it will run out of money, which was gold. To continue:
———————
To answer this problem, the classical economists, and especially the philosopher and friend of Adam Smith, David Hume (1711-1776), developed the notion of a self-correcting mechanism by which supluses and deficits in international trade would automatically solve themselves… end of quote.
I’ve read what John Stuart Mill and David Hume said. They explained that when you import more than you export, money becomes scarce, prices and wages fall, people are willing to accept a lower pay, and they have less money to spend on overseas goods. As wages fall, the price of exports also fall.
I also know David Ricardo’s argument. His argument was about cloth vs wine. That the country that can produce wine more efficiently than cloth should trade wine for cloth. So that’s what trade is, I produce then I sell it to you and buy something I want from you.
To help prove my point, in David Hume’s book ‘of money and other economic essays’, an Amazon reviewer called meatloaf has included this in his review:
The most important thing he said was about trade. That when your country has trade surpluses, this means the amount of money in circulation will go up, making your prices go up. As your exports are more expensive and your imports cheaper, you will have a trade deficit meaning you will have to give up your gold, and then things will be balanced. So he saw trade as good for the country, and beneficial to all nations, and that when gold and silver is used as money, it will ensure that exports and imports are equaled out over time.
Also same reviewer-meatloaf, included this in his review of John Stuart Mill’s book under book 3, of his 5 book conglomerate-principles of political economy:
In his third book, this is about the medium of exchange: That gold and silver is best as money, but that they should both be set by the market. He explains that if the government can print money, then the money lender will need to charge a higher rate to compensate for his loss. He also explains that a metallic standard is good for international trade. If you import more than you export, you will have to give up your money, prices and wages will go down. It will be cheaper to export later on, and more expensive to import later on.
So I hope you understand I have read the classical economists for myself, I know what they meant by free trade. Last point I want to make is from the beginning I’ve talked about the difference between a market based economy vs a managed economy, where because the government has control of the debt based monetary system they can make things happen. This was officially the case after the great depression in the 1930s. Most of the examples you’ve given, if not all happened after the 1930s or not too far away from then. My point all along has been that we haven’t had a free market economy since the 1930s, so our choices are between National managing the economy or Labour managing, with or without input from other parties.
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I have the feeling MMP is finished, by natural forces, anyway. NZ First is finished, I can’t imagine the Maori Party ever getting back, the Greens may or may not get back, such a slim percentage, Act is useless. So, that leaves just the Greens, Labour and National. The Nats are still the most popular largest party, Bill English outpolled Ardern for PM, by miles. There will be voter resentment, despite MMP, that natural justice was denied, and if things for the new Government do go pear- shaped, and there are ructions etc, they will all shed votes, also as prices rise, such as food prices rise, petrol goes up, no tax cuts, etc. Lots of unknowns, but this election was run as an FPP election (despite an MMP result!), as I suspect the next one will be. Talk about muck with electoral systems at your peril.
Small parties now have little credibility, and Greens and NZ First both shed votes, as did the Maori Party, big time. It seems to me the public want their FPP system back. Can’t be gerrymandered by an opportunist and has far more ethics and accountability. Unbelievable that in three out of eight MMP elections, WP has held the balance of power. It is just a stupid, dangerous and undemocratic system, with voters sidelined.
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[…] Out of the quagmire into the quicksand […]
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Bev, it is obvious that NZ politics are controlled and rigged. both Douglas and Richardson supported the same economic direction. National deserved to lose, they will not listen to the people. NZ housing market is ridiculous. House prices have risen faster than the price of bricks and mortar. Home ownership down from 80% to 65% and dropping. I share your sentiments about NZ First. In the 96 election We not HE achieved 14% of the vote. HE not We managed single handed to crash the support to 4%. The Greens should be booted right out of there. The MMP referendum was stacked. There is no referendum legislation in NZ, what is there is false. When the government reserves the right to make the final decision it is not a referendum. If the new coalition government a not sorted after 12 months we will have to get a new political party off the ground. I learnt over the weekend they are now teaching ‘diversity’ in school and that was under National.
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Warren. thankyou for the reply. I understand. NZ used to have one of the highest standards of living in the world 4th. Now? 24th. We used to build trains out of the Dunedin workshops. Without any consultation with NZ the workshops were closed and trains purchased from China. Simple export more milk powder. China with her profits from trains comes back and buys the farms. Canterbury has gone from 200,000 dairy cows to 1,250,000 with more to come and have successfully polluted everything. All this is not Free Trade. NZ is being destroyed. It is either deliberate or foolishness. The OECD is very critical of NZ, The haves have to much and the have nots have to little the gap is widening and NZ has missed out on growth. I have yet to be convinced Ardern’s Labour will fix anything. The biggest problem NZ has is the politicians are not patriots rather globalists with their heads where they shouldn’t be. The business sector and the round table are just to selfish to care. The privatisation of electricity trebled the price of electricity. That is one industry that did not need changing. For your interest the wind turbines do not produce electricity. They are a scam. They do however produce useless harmonics and lots of them. These harmonics through smart meters are fraudulently added to consumers power accounts. People can quite easily be paying up to 30% more and in some cases up to 100% more. We have to rebuild our political system. Paula Bennett is not the answer.
I cannot name who should be Prime Minister. We have to start from scratch. We kick the new party off the ground in 12 months time.
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Well Brian J. The one thing I know is the Greens aren’t the answer, they aren’t helping one bit. They are bleeding our country dry. At a time where our crown debt is at least $90 billion, this is when we should be very careful and very prudent with our spending. Both labour and National have paid $billions in regards to the emissions trading scheme. In 2008, our debt was $10 billion, now its $90 billion, all those years we had an ETS where the money went overseas.
So if your wanting to start over, let’s deal with the Greens first. Next let’s have true free trade, where our exports equal our imports, as I’ve explained before. Now if we do those things, and cut back government expenditure, than you’ll know what prosperity is.
Unfortunately National and Labour with the way they are, aren’t the answer.
Here’s another idea, how bout your income tax goes into a social security account. When your unemployed, at the hospitable or on the pension you use up the money in your social security account. When your at school you are overdrawing your social security account. When you pay income tax, your balance goes up. And when you retire what is in your account is all you have to retire on, if you have nothing, then there is nothing for you.
It means no more dole bludgers. And oh those who are born disabled would be exempt from the system, would get support from the community.
When you have politicians talking this way, that’s when you’ll know, it’s not politics as usual, that people do care about our future. I’ll probably die of old age before then.
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The Greens are dishonest. The only alternative is totally stupid, which they aren’t, so totally dishonest and have sold out. Possibly paid off
Winston has had 20 years to do something. I am not expecting much now
National and Labour controlled by same puppet master
With respect we don’t need social security accounts
We need jobs and industry here first. That is how NZ got started.
I am all for trade, where the only way to balance the books is to only import out of exports. We can’t go into debt buying cars. We have to export for that.
We sold our cement works to Holcim who closed them down. We now buy an imported product. Our trade is not balanced and we go further into debt. That does not work. Same in Australia
At the end we still have to do as much as we can at our end
IE We own the steel and concrete and build our own bridges. That is a must. Theoretically we should print our own money for this type of expenditure. Lincoln and Kennedy got shot for doing this
Allegedly Lincolns currency was green on one side hence the expression, Green Back
NZ wage bill is $20/hour. China $2/hour. That does not work.
The unemployed came out of deindustrialisation. What was an unemployed Maori tyre maker supposed to do.
The unemployment is much higher than official figures. Remember they raised the sickness benefit. The unemployed got sick. Hey presto unemployment came down
The biggest bludgers are the politicians. Backbencher starts on about $170,000? and does nothing because he wants a select committee position for another $20,000
Bill English took a living away from home allowance of $900/week. these people have no conscience
We probably should move away from a democracy and go fascist.
The increased debt you mentioned driven up by Key was done deliberately so that his banker mates could lend more money which doesn’t exist and pick up more interest payments on loans they do not own
It will be interesting to see if Jacinda Ardern privatises the water
You may be interested to know Anthropogenic Climate Change is a total scam. Politicians should be in gaol. Greenies should be hanged.
Habibullo Abdussamatov, the head of the Russian Academy of Sciences has stated
1) In 2010 stated “The next Ice Age starts in 2014 and will last 200 Years”
20 “There is no Greenhouse Warming”
I will believe this guy before that knucklehead Jamie ……. Shaw
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Whatever the role of MMP or FPP the system lacks objectivity. The fault for that goes right to the top where there (seems to be) an ideological power sharing agreement between globalists in banking and property and the internationalist left.
http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=1E27606A-CA5C-9A61-06BA-1D96F4285A37
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A comment about trade. The Globalists do not care about balancing trade. Why? If all Nation States are destroyed and we go into a New World Order it will not be about NZ exporting to pay for imports. We will just buy a product from a world market place. I would like readers to think about that. The world will be owned by monopolies. I believe the Elite are dividing up the world among themselves as we speak. Our dim witted politicians on 200,000 per year have been suckered in. It has nothing to do with National/Labour or Right Wing/Left Wing. Everything is stage managed. Many believed Trump would take a stand and he did pull out of the Paris Agreement. Nothing since. Controlled.
An earlier comment from Australia believes the Answer lies with Bill Shorten. Shorten is a Globalist knucklehead. So is Abbott. Turnbull the same.
New Zealand urgently needs a new political party starting now.
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Sorethumb. Prof. Paul Spoonley is either a Globalist/Socialist or a dill. He is advocating diversity. A mixing up of the peoples of the world. Then follows intermarriage. Then hey presto, the New World Order is not only one big market place it consists of a single race of people. It might work. it might be a good thing though it was all planned behind closed doors. No consultation with the citizens of the world. Heck no, we don’t understand, shock horror we might even oppose it. Which gives rise to the question. Who knows what is good for us and feels compelled to operate in secrecy. Who are these clever dicks. Is Spoonley one or is he the result of university brainwashing. When we think about this do we wonder, is this a massive world wide breeding programme? Who is behind it? Do they include themselves?
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The other big shift is in the Asian population, up from 13 percent to 38 in the same period.
Professor Paul Spoonley from Massey University’s College of Humanities and Social Sciences said he expected Pākehā to fall through the 50 percent threshold in the late 2020s.
He said the shift was significant and would pose challenges, such as the need to change the political make-up of the Auckland Council and its 21 local boards, where there are few Asian members.
“Are local voters prepared to see a candidate who might be a different ethnicity to themselves, as a suitable representative to themselves ? ” Professor Spoonley told RNZ’s Outspoken programme.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/outspoken/audio/2018628359/outspoken-auckland-issues
What is racism? On Noelle McCarthy’s A Slice of Heaven. Mark Sainsbury scoffs at callers who worry about the Chinese buying ( ____). “The board would be lit up all day”. Isn’t the message (therefore) that race/ethnicity doesn’t matter. Then there is Peter Brown’s “will they fit in?” comment?
At the end of the day it appears we are part of a great experiment. We are to move over and the result is supposed to be better for us (unless you are racist)?
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If ‘Nigger’ is derogatory then so is ‘Pakeha’
Rhodesia was handed back to the indigenous. Mugabe’s Shona slaughtered thousands of Matabele. Now bankrupt.
South Africa handed back to the indigenous. SA had Ford and GM plants on equal pay. Closed. Now bankrupt.
New Zealand next?
We have a problem. The indigenous to NZ has never been resolved. Waitaha, Turehu, Moriori, Patupaiarehe.
Just who received what Treaty settlement?
There is no experiment. As in Rhodesia and South Africa White NZ is to go by the way by design. Who is driving this, the United Nations?
NZ should be united
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