Progressives and the Futility of Persuasion

Conservative-Liberal+TrendI recently received an email from another anti-progressive warrior where he congratulated me on what he perceived as my more tempered approach to the battle.

Sorry Chuck, if I’ve become more moderate, it isn’t by design.

You see I have never really had any wish to convert or persuade progressives to join our forces. You can’t do that, because progressives are generally suffering from a mindset that cannot be altered by reason. Bring them into our ranks and they will spend more bullets firing upon us than on our adversaries.

In the US now we have a classic political battle between the Tea Party and the RINO Republicans that have destroyed the Republican Party. Karl Rove is at last feeling heat. The Bushes are under siege. The Republican establishment, completely infiltrated by RINOs and progressives, is fighting for its political life.

Sensing the rising threat, fake Conservatives are coming out of the woodwork and are posturing and preaching and desperately trying to shore up support for actions and ideas that have for decades now under-mined Conservatism, and destroyed our civil society. These ideas, in a gross perversion of their mission statement, have been pushed by the Republican Party in the US and The National Party in New Zealand and the Conservative Party in the UK.

Battling Rove and the other fake Conservatives (like for example Jon Huntsman or David Frum) are a new breed of upcoming politicians promoted by the Tea Party and dedicated to restoring Constitutional Government and our civil society. These new politicians are not wasting time trying to appease Rove or other betrayers. They are bent on replacing them.

The strategy is clear. First, the enemy has to be identified and their territory marked out, and then that territory has to be invaded and the betrayers have to be DEFEATED.

My advice is this- don’t waste time trying to appease and persuade such an entrenched enemy as the progressives are. Here in the NZ blogosphere, you will never persuade committed progressives like Whale and Farrar and so many others to change their minds. You’ll never sway John Key, a dedicated progressive and surrounded and advised by a dimwitted gang of ultra-liberal believers sourced of all places from NZ’s corrupt and dying mainstream media sector.

They must be defeated. Persuasion is just not an effective option. Progressives must be displaced from their places of influence. Like Conservatives are supporting Ted Cruze and other Constitutionalists in the US, and trying to vote them into places of influence in the Republican party, at the expense of the treacherous old guard, so must progressives be replaced here in NZ.

I am sorry I can’t update this site more regularly. When I was blogging constantly, I was always surprised at the growing support I enjoyed. This told me that the forces for Conservatism are out there and they are far far greater in number than many people realise. We will defeat the Progressives, and defeating them is the only strategy that will work.

There are many more blogs out there today advocating for new wave Conservatism. My good and always courageous friend Crusader Rabbit is still battling on. As are my old friends at NZ Conservative, a site they started after an argument to protect my freedom of expression on another blog they once shared ownership of. Trevor Louden still fights the good fight. These guys are the true heroes.

More recently we have Terry Wallbank’s The Conservative, and John Stringer’s CoNZervative, both great sites offering badly needed relief from the progressive echo chambers that are Kiwiblog and Whaleoil (for the most prominent examples).

There are links to all of these sites in my side bar.

Go there and support these guys for every day of every week they have an interesting and fresh set of views that represent the Conservative alternative. They’re trying hard to bring our country back from the abyss of liberalism and they deserve our support.

Remember this- we are not always going to agree on all things all the time, so that is something we should not worry too much about. However, we all know WHO THE ENEMY IS. Adolf Hitler was never going to be persuaded. Neither was Joe Stalin. Neither is Fidel Castro. Neither is Barack Obama. Neither is Louisa Wall. Neither is David Cameron. Neither is Andrew Cuomo. Neither is Michael Bloomberg. Neither is John Key. Neither is Cameron Slater. Neither is Julia Gillard. Neither is David Farrar. Persuasion is a waste of time, progressives must be defeated.

Footnote: A great article by Angelo Codevilla in Forbes magazine on how the current Republican leadership has betrayed Conservatives, leaving them with no one to vote for.

24 thoughts on “Progressives and the Futility of Persuasion

  1. Red, I totally agree you have no show of converting any lunatic libertarians anymore than you can convince Joe Karam that David Bain is not innocent. However, there are many undecided on both the Bain and libertarian issues. You are more likely to bring them on board is you do not respond to name calling too aggressively. You seem to be doing that more now. Look at the number of thumbs up you get on a blog with so many libertarians.


  2. Thanks for the kind words, Red. I have always enjoyed (actually probably the wrong word – more like ‘respected’) your upfront, no-compromise style of pointing out the fatuousness of many of these commenters.

    I don’t get to blog as much either – it’s a pity because the big challenges are that in this battle of ideas, the arguments we are coming up against are increasingly devoid of any strong philosophical or moral foundation.

    It’s simply a case of calling opponents of progressive liberals “phobic” and then redefining words or concepts to bolster their own opinions. This new breed of progressive are not interested in argument or debate, because they are not interested in any other point of view than their own. Diversity, freedom and rights are simply words to guarantee THEIR wants, irrespective of the cost.


  3. Chuck. My time is quite limited these days and you are right that I do not respond because one has to make the most of what time is available and spending it arguing with morons is a totally fruitless endeavour.

    My view used to be that they must learn that we are not going to be intimidated by their attacks, but I think we have made enough ground over the last few years not to worry about that any more.

    Zen- you are right. Its difficult to argue politics with people who have only experienced an extremely narrow spectrum of views. A result of schools and universities and most mainstream media being completely controlled by progressives. You can also immediately tell those who get their news from TV One or the Herald. (for example) They are always only informed on the talking points favoured by their media masters, and know nothing of any other perspectives.

    Keep up the good work at NZ Conservative.


  4. Thanks for the kind words, RB. I’ve put up a post linking to this over at CR.
    The problem with Chuck’s persuasion model is that there are now so many indoctribots- uninformed and unthinking products of public education- that reason and logic are utterly useless as forms of persuasion.
    And the decay of ethics and morals is such that a majority will always vote for a bigger slice of another’s property.
    I can’t claim to have the answer to this. We may simply have to stand and watch the whole decaying mess implode and then be ready to try and build something better.


  5. “I can’t claim to have the answer to this. We may simply have to stand and watch the whole decaying mess implode and then be ready to try and build something better.”

    Yeah, except the authors of the mess are waiting for a chance to grab power by force of arms too.

    Just read an interesting article here-

    The left keep blocking the message. That is the real problem. For example it was not Sarah Palin herself that was the problem, it was what Sarah was saying. And the left do the same to anyone who attempts to bring a different political message to the debate. They destroy them (and silence the message) through their media flunkies.


  6. If they attempt to grab power by force of arms, I believe they will fail. And set off a chain-reaction nobody will be able to control for a long time.


  7. Ditto, to the other ‘thank you’ comments, Redbaiter. I agree it is a complete waste of time trying to persuade leftists to change; they have been indoctrinated through and through, and they actually believe falsehoods are facts; they actually believe what they say is rational and true when everything they say is based on feel-good politics and emotion—and nothing more.

    I am really amazed how this happened within a few decades; that’s all the time it has taken to bend children’s minds. And that is the key point, unless we can rip out all liberals from education we are wasting our time, and that I believe should be the fundamental aim. I often wonder if that is why liberals are so opposed to charter schools. If it were up to me, I would privatise all schools for the sole purpose of removing liberal control.

    Let’s face it, most kids are not getting educated at home for a number of reasons, and then they go to school and mainly get female teachers who are 99.9% liberal and the indoctrination begins.

    If conservatives can find a way to control education, we have a fighting chance of restoring some political balance to New Zealand.

    Thanks again Terry


  8. “Let’s face it, most kids are not getting educated at home for a number of reasons, and then they go to school and mainly get female teachers who are 99.9% liberal and the indoctrination begins.”

    I agree with most of what you say but not the 99.9%. Do you ever watch Fox? How about Ann Coulter? Have you read Melanie Philips or Muriel Newman?

    Woman especially teacher are on average more liberal but fortunately not all of them. We certainly new more men in teaching and I mean normal heterosexual men.


  9. Chuck, the 99.9% was a little poetic licence for sure, but it’s up there. I am a former teacher at tertiary level so I am not too informed about what goes on at primary and high schools, but at the tertiary level virtually all are liberal. And the conservatives soon learn to shut up and tow the liberal line. However, from what I can gather the same applies across all schools.

    Yes, I do watch Fox, and do read Melanie Phillips (I have her feed and others on my blog) etc., but why the question?


  10. “Footnote: A great article by Angelo Codevilla in Forbes magazine on how the current Republican leadership has betrayed Conservatives, leaving them with no one to vote for.”

    You and I have spoken of the odd case of Mark Levin before. I am now thoroughly convinced he’s part of the problem. There are two reasons in two days.

    Saturday I signed up for his TEA Party Patriots national townhall phone conference. Reagan Attorney General Ed Meese was the guest. One caller pointed out the betrayals of the RINOs (what I insist on calling SKUNCs) and asked if Reagan would think it was time to splinter off into some new third party. Meese gave the traditional “that will never work because the Left then gets a win” scare mongering. That told me what he had become, and maybe what he always has been.

    The 2nd was today in the last 15 minutes of Monday’s Mark Levin Podcast. A caller wanted to open the minds of conservatives into looking into what was used to coerce Chief Justice John Roberts into giving his nonsensical decision favoring Obamacare. Levin cut him off faster than a cockroach runs when the lights come on. Levin went on to condemn Roberts for cowardice, but in no way was he willing to allow discussion of illegalities, speculation or otherwise.

    In other words, Meese and Levin are Republicans first. As comes to mind reading Codevilla, conservatives need to be looking to new leaders. And just because a group has a TEA Party label (e.g., Levin’s Tea Party Patriots) does not mean they are really grassroots.

    In fact Reagan actually predicted each individual would at some point become conscious of the betrayals and give up on the Establishment both Left and Right. To see this, read my post on the 102nd anniversary of his birth this last Feb 6: Ronald Reagan’s Political Model. You and I really want out of this pit of tyranny the world Establishment has been digging for us, and just as you observed above, we really are not alone. More neighbors than we know are dying to hear from us.


  11. Good on you, Redbaiter!
    I can put my philosophy in three words – “Right is right”.
    Right-wing economics is the *only* economics that works. Same for education and everything else. To hell with welfare and supporting bludgers.
    Keep up the good work.
    – thor42


  12. The reason for the question was the poetic license you took. Woman on average nowadays are more liberal than men there are a significant minority who are not. Take Harriet on Kiwiblog for example.


  13. Chuck, thanks for the clarification. Obviously there is a significant number of women out there who aren’t liberal, but I am only concerned with the disproportionate number in education, and this I believe is our main problem. And the education problem is not solely a female one, it is liberalism in general, most male teachers are liberal as well.


  14. Terry is damn right.

    Education in NZ today is just a progressive immersion process.

    Its just gradually been turned from a reasonably objective public education system into a stinking swamp of progressive propaganda.

    And as it has happened over the years, nobody who should have (the National Party most of all) has done a damn thing to stop it.

    Now we have schools kids being brainwashed in leftism and fake environmentalism just like the Hitler Jugen back in the late 1930s were brainwashed with Nazism, and apparently nobody in National gives a damn about this evil business.

    If I was ever in charge of education in this country I would symbolically burn every government school to the ground, fire every teacher and everyone in state education, and let the private sector start it all over again.


  15. The Statist left thrives for reasons very depressing.

    The majority voting population craves , lusts after, will “accept” other people’s money as their right…..not as temporary get on your feet community help, but as a permanent cynical lifestyle. And if the State does it right the induced dependency will also envelope the middle class. Thats why they won long long ago. There is no way back.
    When you stop trying to convert them and instead maximise your own life, you win. Take great care with who teaches your kids what, the dining table conversation is vital for a contrarian non collective education.


  16. Spectacular defeat of the Tories in Eastleigh by-election where they were beaten by the UKIP candidate into 3rd place.

    Farage’s comment: “The real problem they’ve got is their own supporters look at a Conservative Party that used to talk about wealth creation, low tax, enterprise. It now talks about gay marriage and wind farms,”

    Sounds like he’s talking about the Nats.


  17. The problem is, it’s about insecurity and envy, oh, and tribalism. People NEED to back these ridiculous corners for weak identity reasons. The other issue is the unthinking brain-dead media in NZ, that do not foster debate and often take sides (usually liberal), so that Bravehearts like you and me Red, find ourselves out front, while the front line has backed away behind us so they can go on gay radio with an affectation and shake hands with Tame Iti.


  18. Well, we may be the isolated vanguard today, but all we need is another two or three hundred people who understand what is happening, and are not blind to the manipulation of our political and social condition by Progressives, and we will defeat them.

    I think we already have those people.

    We of course have truth on our side. The left have nothing but trickery and deceit and hollowness.

    Believe me, I can see the advances we have made over the last few years, and though they are only small we have momentum. We will in the end defeat the Progressives. I am sure.


  19. Sigh….our fellow travellers are people who can and, more importantly, want to live without govt subsidising their very existence.
    It’s harder, collectives that are voluntary are great, the multitude of compulsory ones are not.
    Easy money choices win.
    Facing certain long term economic disaster, as in the pre Douglas cycle, will bring them around like smelling salts……for a brief while.
    Then at the first sign of recovery…..they want other people’s money again.

    We lost the vast majority, long long ago.
    Protect your wealth, teach your kids the difference between cash flow and profit.
    Living well is the best revenge.


  20. “Well, we may be the isolated vanguard today, but all we need is another two or three hundred people who understand what is happening, and are not blind to the manipulation of our political and social condition by Progressives, and we will defeat them.

    I think we already have those people.”

    There are a lot more than two or three hundred people who understand what is happening in a lot of areas but they will not agree on everything. For example Colin on partial asset sales.

    Colin Craig could be the answer but he want to be a his party to be the Colin Craig Conservative Party. As I said on KB he needs to get more media training. He allowed that bull dyke to talk over him. It must have been tempting to say excuse Butch but I was talking. Ian Wishart would a good man to give him advice. I wonder if he has done any rehearsals. I guess it might hard to find someone to play the role of Wall. I wonder is she takes steroids to help her act aggressive.


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