A Libertarian Cheers For A Christian Society

Further to recent discussions about the Conservative Party, its timely to consider a piece by the well known Libertarian (American) writer Charley Reece.

Charley recalls that some of the civilised communities he has lived in have been Christian communities, whereas the most barbaric places he has lived have been dominated by secular progressives.

I agree with Charley, for in NZ, and in my travels around the globe, where I have actually lived (not holidayed) in other cultures and countries, I have noticed exactly the same features.

Says Charley-

The basic thing that protects our persons, our property and our liberty is the morality that individuals possess in their own hearts. The law cannot be a substitute for that. No law can protect you from a dishonest merchant or a thug because the law is always, of necessity, applied after the fact, and then only on a selective basis. Furthermore, as we have seen, the law and the system of justice often degenerate into a tragic farce.

The bottom line is that if we become an immoral people, we will eventually lose both our prosperity and our liberty. A free society cannot exist without trust, and it is morality that cements that trust. We are drifting toward the abyss, and we had all better think seriously about why this is happening.

Full article here.

Colin Craig has said his party is not Christian. The smearers are saying otherwise. Even if it were so, and the Conservative Party was in fact Christian based, would that really be so bad?

15 thoughts on “A Libertarian Cheers For A Christian Society

  1. The smearers are making the fundamental error of equating political involvement by Christians with a “Christian political party”, what ever that is supposed to be. Most of the parties in NZ have Christian political involvement – Goff even said that Labour policies were Christianity in action, but there was hardly any jumping up and down about that.

    What Christians are dealing with in NZ and other countries is a Marxist push to segregate religious belief into the private sphere. This translates into the idea that you can believe what you like, but you can’t act or talk about it. So any hint of real Christian thought or action bursting free from that pressure to stay silent causes a massive backlash. And there’s embarrassment from those Christians who have bought into the idea that they should not be seen or heard.

    That’s what we’ve been seeing with the Conservative Party.


  2. A party with its own declared god-bothering brand is not the way to go. Far better to be united in “sameness of religion, manners, habits and political principles that united our ancestors”. “Substituting “diversity” will disunite us. There is no virtue in diversity per se. Experience teaches that the most stable societies are the most homogeneous.”

    We’ve seen where the various factions of diversity are taking society and the result is not good.

    We do not have to be clones, but general principles of respect for each other and respective properties is a good starting point without requiring the tag ‘Christian’. Somewhere down the track, that mutual respect may be under a different flag, dare I say it non-Christian, like Islam. However abhorrent it may be currently to some, even that has some basic principles for cohesive society.


  3. “..even that has some basic principles for cohesive society.”
    Well, yeah–slavery under the banner of Islam is pretty “cohesive” all right. Due to the cost of rejecting it.


  4. What really sticks in my craw, Red, is that while most conservatives are more than happy to admit they embrace Judeo-Christian morals and principles, and that they are essential for a healthy society, as soon as someone actually identifies themself as a Bible-believing Christian, or states that the Bible and Christianity are the foundation to J-C principles, many of these same so called conservatives show their true colours and drag out much the same phraseology as the Progressive Left use to attack conservatism.

    For example – “fundamentalist Christianity”, “believers in sky-faeries”, “Christianity is just a crutch for the feeble-minded”, “God botherers”, etc. And if a Christian were to actually quote scripture to support their morality/principles, or use the Bible to emphasise that there are absolutes like truth and error, good and evil, then heaven help such an individual as he obviously has no credibility [sarc].

    And while I don’t necessarily feel that we need a Christian Party per se [I do feel it important that a conservative party have a Christian presence, though], I agree with your final sentence:

    “Even if it were so, and the Conservative Party was in fact Christian based, would that really be so bad?”

    As a Christian I feel that we are not only in a battle between ideologies, but in fact are engaged in a spiritual battle where it is not only the democratic, moral and family-centric society at stake, but quite literally the souls of men are the real prize. When we see the evil of the progressive left manifesting and twisting the ability of the average person to recognise the difference between right and wrong, good and evil is there any doubt that the REAL battle is so much larger than many of us will dare to admit?

    And does not the following aptly describe our enemy – the atheistic Marxist Left:

    Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


  5. That is all well said Kris, but in my mind the key to defeating the left is to stop fighting among ourselves.

    Hatred and intolerance of Christianity is a Marxist trait and the left have used it well to divide our forces and allow themselves to dominate.

    We must overcome the left, and it is in that direction that our shots must be fired.

    We cannot waste ammunition (and create casualties) by firing into our own ranks.

    That we have done this is one reason the left have defeated us for so long.

    We must be unified. (not though at any cost)


  6. KG – did you read the article? The quoted author said that he felt very safe in a local neighbourhood because even in Islamic states there must be some basic level of morality to give a generally cohesive society. Unfortunately a society whose outward oft-stated attitudes are utterly anti Judeo-Christian and totally abhorrent to most.

    KK – Having being raised with religion but not practicing as an adult, I hopefully might fall into your “average person [able] to recognise the difference between right and wrong”. I also note that you are a firm believer, maybe requiring a party with a definite secular Christian attachment. I however do not require that, just a conservative one willing to uphold stated principles and ideals that support families firmly based on Christian ways. For me the CP without secular attachment seems to tick many required boxes and I suspect would appeal to many.


  7. “..even in Islamic states there must be some basic level of morality to give a generally cohesive society.”
    Basic level of morality? What, like stoning women to death, clitorectomies, murdering women who have been raped and “honour” killings?
    That’s some basic level of morality. Forgive me if I don’t share that definition.


  8. I have lived in a few small towns in the US (Texas especially) where people still went to church on Sunday. I lived in Rexburgh (Idaho) for a while, which is a real Mormon town. Same thing.

    No theft, no violence, no thuggery. You could leave the windows of your car down and the keys in the ignition. You could walk the streets at any hour of the night without fear of being assaulted or robbed.

    Same as in some towns I lived in in Oman and UAE and Saudi Arabia. They were Muslim towns, but same thing. No theft. No muggings. If you drop your wallet, someone will turn it in to the police every time.

    Compare this to places where secular progressives rule. Like New York, San Fran, LA, Auckland. I’ve lived in all those places. No damn chance mate you’ll ever get a dropped wallet back. Violence burglary, muggings car theft.

    Once, after a flight was unexpectedly cancelled, I was stuck in a hotel in a certain part of New York. The manager told me quite clearly not to go walking around the streets after dark.

    The difference is stark, and I think that it is this level of morality that is the focus of Charley’s piece.


  9. Well said, Sinner.
    You’re dead right when you say:

    “Ask any real Christian, they will explain there are “liberal” Christians – who aren’t really Christians at all – and “True” Christians who actually believe in what the bible says.”

    In my opinion one cannot be both a Christian and a liberal – the two are mutually exclusive.


  10. Sinner,

    My previous comment is in moderation (too many links, I think), but since I’ve replied to you, I have to add this.

    You said: “liberals are liberals: the only effective solution involves piano wire and lamp-posts.”

    I will never agree with that. Any one that advocates that has stepped over the abyss.


  11. Kris, be careful what you say in response to the commenter using the posting name “Sinner”.

    He is a leftist posting here for the purpose of discrediting this blog.

    Lucia is right and repeats what I have often stated in respect of Sinner’s comments.

    I leave his posts up as an example of the duplicity the left are capable of.

    Personally I think he’s Pete George, but I could be quite wrong.


  12. Firstly no socialist can honestly call their ideology Christian, it goes against the following old testament commandments:

    EIGHT: ‘You shall not steal.’

    TEN: ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.’

    Michale Savage was a principled man but sadly confused, the dole is apllied force, Charity is applied Christianity:

    2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

    We can see that Jesus had no moral objections to contracts or private ownership of property from The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard:

    Matt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

    Secondly the ideas of Christianity support the ideals of freedom and personal responsibility as evidenced by the fact that God gave each of us the self goverance to either choose God or reject God. The American Founding Fathers recognised this, “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

    God doesn’t afford us the right to judge others but he instructs us to warn others of risky behaviour, and this is a right – freedom of speech. The simple fact of the matter is that Conservatives warn of risky behaviour and those engaging in it don’t particularly like it. Tough bikkies.


  13. “Kris, be careful what you say in response to the commenter using the posting name “Sinner”.”

    You’re quite right, Red. I should have made it clear that while I agreed with the portion I quoted from Sinner’s comment, I certainly didn’t agree with his closing sentence from the same comment. No surprises that the duplicitous Pete George [United Future candidate, Dunedin] grabbed it, though, and quoted it [at Dimpost] ignoring my quoted portion with qualifier, and highlighted Sinner’s final sentence.

    But I did leave myself a bit open – agreed.


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